In this interview excerpt, Philippe de Schoutheete, Belgian Permanent Representative to the European Union from 1987 to 1997, looks back at the circumstances surrounding the ‘Black Monday’ (30 September 1991) of the Dutch Presidency, which — following various misunderstandings — had submitted a new draft treaty that was more ‘integrationist’ (tree image) than the former Luxembourg proposal (Greek temple image), but in the end was only supported by Belgium. The approach put forward by Luxembourg would go on to be enshrined in the Treaty of Maastricht.